Sunday, 20 September 2009

The Nat paper on foreign affairs - weasel words and unintentional hilarity



Mike "Michael" Russell



A weasel

I was astonished to read in the SoS that our precious Nat devolved Executive planned to put out papers on issues including Europe and foreign affairs, and defence.

My immediate reaction was "Great - this is going to be hilarious."

His Immensity and his troupe of poltroons merrily charging off into all the policy areas which will show them up as naive and incompetent. Brilliant.

And the paper on Europe and foreign affairs, put out by the inimitably pompous Mike Russell, has not disappointed me.

There are bits of this document that have had me laughing more than I've done in ages.

Let's have a look at a few of the gems.

"2.22. ... Mechanisms exist for Scottish interests to be fed into the decision making process, directly and via the UK. However these are often lost or diluted during their incorporation into the UK negotiating line, even where Scotland's carry a disproportionate share of the UK's interests."

[Sic.]

Apart from the dodgy grammar, this is asinine drivel and a frankly offensive attempt to mislead.

Exactly how "often" are Scottish interests "lost or diluted"? Can we have some specific examples? Around, say, six ought to be enough. Oh, we can't.

"5.4. A Scottish Foreign Service and embassy network could and should look very different from the FCO model."

It certainly would. As discussed previously, it would be a lot smaller, less effective and would cost more, pro rata, than the existing UK network of embassies and consulates does. Who wants that?

"5.6. Under current arrangements, Scottish Government officials working on Scottish Affairs are accredited with UK diplomatic status and work alongside, or within, UK representations overseas. That reflects the fact that in many policy areas Scottish and UK interests coincide. Independence would not change that and there is no reason why close co-operation on policy and representation, up to and including shared services, should not continue"

Quite. So if in many areas Scottish and UK interests coincide, why do these morons want to secede? And if "independence would not change that", then what exactly is the point?

I'm glad they realise that "close co-operation and policy and representation, up to and including shared services" is a good thing.

What they don't seem to realise is that we already do a lot of "close co-operation" and "shared services". We have this "Union" thing, see - the UK has one of the largest networks of embassies and consulates in the world, they represent us just as much as the rest of the UK, and we only have to pick up 8.5% of the cost. OK?

(Continuing on these lines, the Nats provide an Annex A which gives comparisons of the costs of foreign ministries & embassies, as well as UN, Commonwealth, World Bank etc memberships.

Hilariously, when you do the maths, you find that 8.5% of the UK's costs always comes to quite a lot less than the costs incurred by the likes of Norway, Denmark and so on. So the Nats have actually gone and provided us with the evidence that "independence" would actually cost us quite a bit more in duplication and loss of shared economies of scale. Well done, Agent Russell, the Union thanks you for your help.)

"5.7. An independent Scotland would be recognised as a state in its own right by the international community... ...it would be able to develop its own foreign policy to promote Scotland's interests internationally, and engage with other states as an equal partner."

"Equal"? About as equal as Iceland, Malta, Upper Volta, Laos and so on. In other words, ignored, just as they are.

"5.8. Small countries can and do take lead roles in international organisations and policy development. Key positions within the United Nations including that of Secretary-General are often filled by individuals from smaller nations."

The Hootsmon led on the prospect of Fatso becoming UN Sec-Gen. Laugh? I nearly became incontinent.

How can I begin to respond to this dross?

Power at the UN resides with the Security Council. As part of the UK, Scotland has influence over the UK's permanent membership of that body - which carries a permanent veto.

The job of Sec-Gen, however, is a powerless sinecure. That's why the big, powerful countries are happy to see it go to people from small, puny countries. They don't care.

For comparison, look at the treatment of posts like the top jobs at the World Bank and the IMF. They matter. They are split between the US and the big countries in Europe.

"Small countries ... have all made significant global contributions to security, peace and reconciliation initiatives. New Zealand, for example, hosted a major conference on cluster munitions"

The mirth continues. Wow, the Kiwis hosted a conference! Clearly a massive contribution to global security and world peace. On that basis, the Hilton Hotels Group must count as the world's leading superpower, since it must host more conferences than anyone else.

Now here's the real corker:

"5.17. An independent Scotland would continue membership of the European Union, fulfilling the responsibilities which membership brings."

WEASEL ALERT! WEASEL ALERT!

Note the pathetic attempt to slide and whitewash past the fact that there is a huge amount of controversy and uncertainty over this one.

I've covered some of this before, but let's do it again.

There are no precedents for a secession from an existing EU Member State.

There is, however, a precedent for a secession from an existing member of the League of Nations. That happened when the Irish Free State left the UK. And in that case, the UK carried on happily as a member, while the IFS had to apply to join.

But the precedents are irrelevant, as is the fine detail of the UK's internal constitutional legislation. The EU writes its own membership rules. If the other Member States wanted to treat Scotland as "inheriting" the UK's membership, they could. If they wanted to treat it as a fresh applicant, they could do that too.

Which would they choose?

Whichever suited their own interests, of course.

Now, let's recall that the UK isn't just any EU Member. It has a special status in a number of areas, most notably the Budget Rebate secured by the Blessed Margaret when she said "I want my money back" in 1984.

The rest of the EU don't like this special status. It costs them money. They keep trying to find ways of ending it.

So in the event of a Scottish secession, the rest of the EU could choose between two options:

A) recognise both Scotland and the UK as inheriting the UK's previous membership. Both would inherit their respective shares of the budget rebate. The total cost of the rebate to the rest of the EU would stay the same.

B) decline to recognise Scotland as inheriting the UK's previous membership, and insist instead that it make a fresh application. Scotland would, then, not inherit its share of the UK rebate. The total cost to the rest of the EU would go down, by about 8.5%.

Add to this the political factor, that various countries like Spain, Belgium, Italy and so on are likely to feel a certain inclination towards not "rewarding secessionism", in case one day it's turned against them.

So let's think about it. I'm an EU State, I might not feel too disposed to reward secessionism, and I can choose between reducing my costs or leaving them the same. Hey, I'm going to go for B. Trebles all round!

But not for us, of course. Incredibly, the Nats provide an analysis of all this in Annex B. (I'm starting to think that the Annexes are actually the output of a Unionist mole. Cracking stuff, whoever you are.)

Here we are:

"Depending on the treatment of North Sea GDP in the analysis, Scotland is estimated to have made an illustrative contribution of between €742 and €991 million before accounting for the UK rebate in 2007. When a population share of the UK rebate is included, Scotland is estimated to have made an illustrative contribution to the EU of between €263 million and €512 million in 2007."

But there would not be a "population share of the UK rebate", as we have established above, so one immediate consequence of "independence" would be to cost us €479m, or £328m.

Christ on a bike, that's getting on for 10% of the entire devolved Scottish budget, and nearly 6% of total Scottish public spending.

Yikes.

And on top of that, we have to add the extra costs of the new "independent" foreign ministry and membership of international bodies. I'm not doing the detailed sums now, but it has to be heading for £500m.

Once again, let me propose a vote of thanks to Agent Russell - Codename "Weasel" - for doing such a good job at exposing one of the immediate, bottom-line costs of "independence".

Well done.

21 comments:

Wardog said...

yikes!

Just when I was thinking how pleasant blogging had become without you and your rival AM2, along you come with this fallacy of a post.....

Where do I start.

Wardog said...

"I was astonished" (Nice dramatic effect)

"inimitably pompous" now that is funny coming from you.


"Can we have some specific examples?"

EU Fishing Policy

Encouraging Greater Immigration

Attracting Inward Investment

Oil Industry Regulation

Renewable Power v Non-Renewable Nuclear

Capital Investment / Borrowing (Forth Road Bridge)




That's six for you to get started with, chop, chop, smee.



"smaller, less effective..cost more"

Yes yes, we've heard this one before, you apply it to most things to do with Scotland, but where's your evidence?



"what exactly is the point?"

Your really not getting this are you.

In many policy areas Scottish, UK AND EU interests coincide, that doesn't mean that the UK gives up sovereignty.

Silly smee.


"ignored, just as they are."

The great imperialist speaks, behold!



"I nearly became incontinent"

Freudian slip? - After reading your comments on the Scotsman, I'd say that you backside does far too much talking.




"WEASEL ALERT! WEASEL ALERT!"

Indeed, many reading your tirade of lies will have had that flashed up the minute they visit this tawdry site.

"Christ on a bike" quite

So you essentially relying on the too small, too poor, too stupid routine once again.

Do you think this kite will fly with the wider public smee?

sm753 said...

Well, Muttley, I'm glad to see you're still squatting here awaiting my every word. I post at 18:21, you comment at 18:58.

Such devotion is genuinely heart-warming.

Trying to pick through your usual dross and drivel.

I asked for six specific examples of cases where Scottish interests were "lost and diluted" through UK representation in EU fora.

I see you've failed to provide any.

Five of the six you mention are nothing to do with the EU. Do you even understand that?

Why don't you take fish, and try provide some actual evidence of this "dilution". Can you do that?

""smaller, less effective..cost more"

Yes yes, we've heard this one before, you apply it to most things to do with Scotland, but where's your evidence?"

Hilariously, the evidence that an "independent" Scotland's foreign representation would cost more is in "Weasel" Russell's own paper. Annexe A. Got that yet?

"Indeed, many reading your tirade of lies"

Lies? Where exactly? I've challenged you before to point out any error I make on a point of fact, and I've still never heard from you.

The only facts I've quoted here are from an SNP-produced paper. Are you calling them liars?

"So you essentially relying on the too small, too poor, too stupid routine once again."

No, I'm relying on the "smaller, poorer, less influential" argument once again.

Got it yet?

sm753 said...

And before I forget, Muttley, I have another little challenge for you.

Please try and argue against the following:

- it would be in the financial interest of every other state in the EU to treat an "independent" Scotland as a new entrant, rather than an inheritor of the UK's status;

- that is, therefore, what they would do;

- "independence" would thus cost us over £300m from the off.

Simple enough?

Euan said...

Smee strikes once again.

I've always found Russell by and large one of the most annoying and pompous members of the Cabinet, cept for the big fish himself.

Alec said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alec said...

George Foulkes for UNSG!

The Aberdonian said...

Salmond as Secretary-General.

Whatever next. Maybe a suspected Nazi war criminal in the job!

Come to think of it, was not one once?

Wonder if Kurt did any visits to Yugoslavia when was in the job. Ah, diplomatic immunity!

By the way, what about ex-Irish PM John Bruton (so distinguised that he was barely two years in office) being EU ambassador to Washington or Mary Robinson as UN Human Rights boss for a few years.

sm753 said...

What about them?

I am reminded of a TV interview in which it was put to Salmond that since we now had a Scottish PM, Chancellor and good chunk of the rest of the Cabinet (this may have been in the Blair days), the case for independence was weakened.

El Smuggo oiled that the Nats had a larger ambition for a whole nation, not just for a few individuals.

But now it is proposed that one of the benefits of "independence" might be, er, that a few individuals might have a better shot at top jobs in international quangos.

Curious logic.

Can anyone spell "hypocrisy"?

Alec said...

Where's Oliver Cromwell when we need him?

Whatever I think of Salmond - and it ain't good - I don't think he can be compared to a Nazi war-criminal (well, maybe Eichman in terms of banality). The EU and UN, however, are fundamentally undemocratic organizations (the UN Human Rights wing being a particularly sick joke) and the appointment individuals whom Abby mentioned are good examples of their lack of transparency and nepotism.

Wardog said...

My good Smee, with AM2 now out of the picture, that puts you and Alec in pole position to take up the mantle of 'ich bein unionist''

Are you up to it?

Are we about to see the 'nasty' side of unionism / conservatism emerge from the dark corners of AM2's rather lame multicultural empire?

How will you cope with such infamy?

The Aberdonian said...

Remember our debate a few months ago about Scottish EU membership.

Oh aye, concerning the precedent thing, I presume you are quite happy still with the prospect of Moldova being brought into Romania by its absorbsion. If you remember, the Federal Republic got the DDR in by absorbing it rather than merging with it.

An economic basket case with a civil war going on getting into the EU without a murmer while Scotland being kept out in the cold. A bit weird. Not to mention the Russian interest in the affair with their "peace keepers"

As you say - precedent.

Seems reasonable to raise this again as since then the Moldovans had an election where pro-unification protestors rioted and Chisinau accused Bucharest of trying to swallow the country. This led to Moldova reintroducing visas for Romanians. And the Romanians accelerated their issue of passports to Moldovans.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8029849.stm

Stability in Europe. Yah!

Concerning this union thing, do you think the Baltic States, Ukrainian etc taxpayers would save a packet by being represented by Moscow. Should the USSR become a Euro-Asian Commonwealth (with strangleholds on oil, gas, various other minerals, the Black Sea, the Baltic Sea and a chunk of the Pacific) and democratised. With Mr Putin in charge. Brown Trousers time!

After all, as I mentioned before, we did not advocate Spain to break up 1975 despite years of abuse done to the Catalans and the Basques under various forms of dictatorship.

Finally an anecdote. Dunno if you have ever been in a British Embassy. I have only been once, the one in Israel. Old work matter. Anyway I was very shocked to find all the adverts in reception were nice pictures instructing the viewer to "Visit England".

I have no problem with this - if there were others saying visit Scotland, NI and Wales. Or even just saying the UK. Would not mind so much if the boss of commercial promotion in the place was not himself from Edinburgh and one of his underlings - a Scottish-Israeli - was from Glasgow.

Scotland getting represented then. I do not think so.

sm753 said...

Aberdonian

"Oh aye, concerning the precedent thing, I presume you are quite happy still with the prospect of Moldova being brought into Romania by its absorbsion. If you remember, the Federal Republic got the DDR in by absorbing it rather than merging with it.

...

As you say - precedent."

No I don't. I say:

"But the precedents are irrelevant, as is the fine detail of the UK's internal constitutional legislation. The EU writes its own membership rules."

So Germany got to bring in the DDR, because it was big and powerful (and the others would be more scared of a unified Germany outside the EU than in it).

There is no way Romania would be allowed to just bring in Moldova, or Slovakia Ruthenia, or anything similar.

"Scotland being kept out in the cold."

I'm not suggesting that. I think the EU would warmly welcome the Scottish application, just as the LoN welcomed the IFS application.

The point is that they WOULD have a large financial incentive to make the process a fresh application, because that would enable them to claw back 8.5% of the current UK rebate.

As for your embassy anecdote, surely the cheap and effective answer is to extend the current system where Scot Exec officials are detailed to key embassies to make sure that those trade and tourism relationships are fully represented and marketed.

Hey, we could do a bit of "shared services" with the Welsh and Norn Irish, too.

The lack of a few tourist posters doesn't seem like a good reason to break up a country.

sm753 said...

Muttley

"ich bein unionist"

Bzzt! Nonsense alert.

"Ich" is German for "I".

"Bein" is German for "leg".

So you're saying "I - leg - unionist".

Sorry?

Observer said...

You just so completely don't get where we are coming from Smee it's almost comical.

We will be a small European nation that yeah doesn't play with the big boys, we'll be in with the smaller nations (as we are) and find common ground with them.

The reason why we want to be independent is because it will bring government closer to the people. What's not to understand? The big boys are all mega capitalists and in the nuclear club. We want to join the other guys. The ones who have options.

That's just something that is hard to explain if you don't get it first go, like you don't. But it's not an option that's put every day.

But when it comes to the referendum just watch us it will work.

Observer said...

We have done Empire and power for so bloody long and what has it got us?

My finger will be pointing to Norway - not an Imperial power any more. Never was.

But who do you wanna be like? A big bad nuclear power or Norway?

D'oh.

Observer said...

So what's happened to SU I reckon he has been playing at posting as Andy54321 and Scottish Patriot - which was quite entertaining as he got them all going, hilarious stuff.

The Aberdonian said...

Very true Observer.

The problem with the Security Council is that it is a post-WWII oligarch which will no doubt change in the next few decades or even end.

It is a paradigm just as the paradigm of the Congress of Vienna once stood. If the result of the Congress of Vienna was a Security Council and its membership was still standing then Austria would still be permanant member! And the Germans (taking over from the Prussians obviously).

The big question is not who is on it, but who is not on it. Like India which is the most obvious. I do not see the UK clamouring to have its former colony on board. To big and independent from and for the start (such as flirtations with the USSR). Cannot have the natives vetoing us, what? Dam currymunchers, why don't they do something useful and make us a Chicken Tikka Massala or that thing I had when I was out there before independence ay.

Not to mention the Chinese and their dispute with India, the US having for many years a distrustful relationship, colonial humiliation for the French by the loss of Pondicherry (albeit less humiliating than what happened to the Portugese in Goa etc).

Concerning Moldova, we will see. Who cares, most of the population will be EU citizens soon anyway (and the Germans cannot object as they are very generous in giving out passports to ethnic Germans - where do you think all the Romanian-Germans now live - Kohl paid for thousands to be sent to West Germany at something like $2000-20,000 a head!)

Concerning more Scottish government reps in the present Embassy network. Good idea. During Kaiserian Germany Bavaria and Wurttemburg both retained their own consular corps. And of course the Ozzie states have their Agent-Generals.

Indy said...

It's a fascinating insight into the mentality of a certain type of unionist.

It is all about being part of a big country that has nukes and a seat at the security council. Their leaders must be big. They must be important. They must fight wars (not personally of course). They must be able to get a meeting with the US President - well, sometimes.

These beta type unionists don't want to be part of a small country that doesn't have nukes or a seat at the security council. Or leaders that get told off by Hillary Clinton.

I mean - Alex Salmond can walk about the place without a whole posse of secret servicemen with earpieces and itchy fingers surrounding him because no-one wants to shoot him. He's just not BIG or IMPORTANT enough.

All in all when you consider the costs of being big and important in today's world penis enlargements all round would be much better value and would deal with the underlying problem more effectively don't you think?

Wardog said...

Interestingly on Newsnight tonight, the idea of Britian's importance was laid bare for all to see...

"pompous and awkward....."

Hi Smee

Wardog said...

Jeepers Smee, it's gone a bit quiet on the western front now that AM2 has left the blogging world.

You'll need to post more than once in a blue moon to fill those boots, even with your oversized hoofs.